by Stevie B
Recently, Dave Edwards and myself recorded a podcast on this very subject. This entry will probably post on Fire Press before or around the same time I’ve finished editing and publishing the episode to our podcast feed. The reason I am posting this is because I’d like to share this as a study or addendum to go along with the discussion so people can have some written notes about what we discussed. I’ve recorded podcasts in the past regarding the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues in general, and in the most recent podcast episode’s show notes you can visit links to other posts of mine over the years that go into more detail. On the podcast itself though, we’ve covered this subject, but yet, never fully dealt with if there’s supposed to be an initial evidence to distinguish that it happened or not. In the discussion, I think we unofficially had a process of elimination on what the initial evidence is not, or what it’s not likely to be, based on many of the following thoughts below.
The following is the question posed to a FIRE School teacher named Brian Parkman, along with the response he gave on Facebook when asked on his public wall. I’ve copied and pasted the response and edited it mostly to form a nice article, and added some of my own commentary in the middle, but borrowed heavily from Parkman that it’s necessary to give credit where credit’s due and will distinguish where each author’s thoughts are placed.
by Brian P
No, but it’s the only VERIFIABLE INITIAL evidence that one has been baptized in the Holy Spirit. Let me explain: the baptism in the Holy Spirit is unique to the New Testament believer. Therefore we have to have an INITIAL evidence that is also unique to the New Testament in order to know one has been filled the moment we are praying for them. Otherwise, how would I know they had been filled at that moment? When Peter and his brethren went to Cornelius’ house in Acts chapter 10, and the Holy Spirit fell on them, how did they know that the Holy Spirit had fallen on them and they were filled?
“FOR THEY HEARD THEM SPEAK WITH TONGUES” (verse 46).
That was the only INITIAL evidence they had. Otherwise how would they have known? The ULTIMATE PURPOSE of receiving the Holy Spirit is power, But the INITIAL EVIDENCE is tongues, otherwise there is no way for me to definitively know they have been filled when I pray for them.
You might ask, “What if you laid hands on them to be filled, and all they did was prophesy?” That still would not be conclusive evidence they had been baptized in the Holy Spirit because they prophesied in the Old Testament too. The Holy Spirit may just be coming on them at that moment and they prophesy, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have been filled with the Holy Spirit, because they prophesied in the OT and without being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
So again, an experience unique to the New Testament needs an evidence that is also unique to the NT in order to know they have received the NT experience of Spirit baptism, because any other evidence you can name to ‘prove’ they are baptized in the Holy Spirit happened in the OT. Tongues didn’t happen in the old covenant, but is exclusive to the NT, so it is the only conclusive INITIAL evidence we have to know they have been baptized in the Holy Spirit at that moment.
by Stevie B
A Word of Wisdom reveals a fraction of the mind of God concerning people, places, or things pertaining to the future. Moses told Israel as they left Egypt and entered the Promised Land what would happen if they disobeyed; Samuel told Israel all that would happen if they appointed a king over them. A Word of Knowledge, by contrast is a revelation by the Holy Spirit giving a piece of God’s knowledge or information concerning people and situations in the present. Joshua received a word of knowledge about why the city of Ai was not taken (Joshua 7:10-13). Elisha knew by miraculous revelation the location of the Syrian camp, thereby saving Israel from being attacked (2 Kings 6:8-23).
The Discerning of Spirits is the supernatural ability to see into the spirit world – by this insight the believer can see angels, demons, and discern the condition of the human spirit – good or bad. An example of this would be when Elisha prayed for the eyes of his servant to be opened and he then saw the angel armies of the Lord (2 Kings 6:17).
The Gift of Faith is a supernatural manifestation by the Holy Spirit supplying unlimited faith in a specific situation to achieve supernatural results, as evidenced in the example of Daniel in the lion’s den (Daniel 6:23)
For our discussion today, we’re defining the gift of healings as the supernatural impartation of God’s divine healing power through you to cure disease and heal the sick and afflicted instantly – in particular, being anointed to minister healing for specific kinds of sickness. This happened many times all over the Old Testament and we assume the reader can think of a few examples for themselves. However, what distinguishes the workings of miracles from the gift of healing, is that it’s a special momentary gift of authority which enables us, by the anointing of God, to intervene in the ordinary course of nature to do something that could not be done naturally. A true miracle must involve the suspension of natural laws in the ordinary course of nature. Examples include the multiplying of the widow’s oil (2 Kings 4:1-7) parting the Red Sea and walking on dry ground (Exodus 14:13-31), the floating axe head (2 Kings 6:1-7), among many others.
by Stevie B
The gift of prophecy is a supernatural utterance in a known tongue (not conceived by human thought or reasoning) spoken under the anointing of God to exhort, edify, encourage, strengthen, and comfort the Church.
Definitions
To continue the line of thought of Brian’s that one can point to Old Testament Scriptures to show that people operated in all of the gifts of the Spirit mentioned in the New Testament, except for tongues, I point oftentimes to King Saul. In 1 Samuel 10, when he was anointed king of Israel by the prophet Samuel, it states that the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon him, and he prophesied with the prophets (see v.6, 9-13). Then later on, once he had backslidden and was trying to kill the young David whom God had appointed to replace Saul, it says
Now the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and a harmful spirit from the LORD tormented him (1 Sam 16:14, ESV)
The Spirit of God had left Saul at this point, and he no longer walked in any kind of anointing, but was troubled instead by a tormenting spirit (from God at that!–put that one in your Bible and read it!). Later on, during which time Saul is trying to kill David–not very good fruit for someone if they have the Holy Spirit–it states in 1 Sam 19:23-24:
And he went there to Naioth in Ramah. And the Spirit of God came upon him also, and as he went he prophesied until he came to Naioth in Ramah. And he too stripped off his clothes, and he too prophesied before Samuel and lay naked all that day and all that night. Thus it is said, “Is Saul also among the prophets?”
So let’s get this straight; in the Old Testament, before Christ’s work on the cross, and before believers were able to get saved and have the Holy Spirit living in them, we had instances of murderous backslidden kings prophesying naked when the Spirit came upon them. Therefore, I’d not necessarily point to prophesying as evidence of being filled with the Spirit! If anything, prophesying for the New Testament believer is EASIER than we think, and all can do it–give a thorough reading to the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 14 for more about the gifts in a local fellowship context.
by Brian P
Yes, one can show the fruit of the Spirit without being baptized in the Holy Spirit. It’s not the fruit of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, it’s the fruit of being BORN of the Spirit, or being born-again. There are plenty of Christians that walk in the fruit of the Spirit and aren’t baptized in the Holy Spirit. Now whether one walks in the gifts of the Spirit without being baptized in the Holy Spirit, generally speaking they don’t. But take healing for instance, a person could still get someone healed and not be baptized in the Holy Spirit because they can still pray for them by FAITH, and the person can receive their healing through faith. But strictly speaking, that wouldn’t necessarily be a gift of the Spirit, it was the person’s faith that healed them. Smith Wigglesworth got people healed before he was baptized in the Spirit just because he still believed in divine healing and had faith for it. Faith still works without being baptized in the Holy Spirit. Make sense?
So getting back to your original question about tongues again, since tongues is the only evidence of being baptized in the Holy Spirit that is exclusive to the New Testament, tongues is the only DEFINITIVE evidence I have that someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit. A person could be getting people healed, but that doesn’t definitively show me they are baptized in the Holy Spirit because they healed in the OT too, and they weren’t baptized in the Holy Spirit. That person may just have a strong faith for healing. Or he may be ministering the Word on healing so well to those he prays for that they are getting healed by their own faith. Or it could just be a temporary enduement of power like in the OT–like the way the Spirit rushed on King Saul, who was deemed wicked by that point in his life.
So, tongues being the only gift of the Spirit that did not appear in the Old Testament, it becomes the only gifting that we can definitively ‘see’ in a person’s life that lets us know they are baptized in the Holy Spirit in the New Testament sense. The other giftings wouldn’t be conclusive because the OT shows us one can do those other things without being baptized in the Holy Spirit. So theoretically one could operate in the gifts without being baptized in the Holy Ghost, because it could just be a temporary enduement by the Holy Spirit for that moment, but generally speaking, most of the people you see operating in the gifts are baptized in the Holy Spirit.
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To listen to the podcast itself, click below. It’s recommended that you give it a listen or leave some thoughts and comments below the post, because we can’t cover every single angle of this in just one post, but Dave Edwards and Steve Bremner had a thorough discussion on it in the latest episode of Fire On Your Head.
Download this episode (right click and save)
If you’d like to subscribe to the Fire On Your Head Podcast, visit our directory in iTunes, or visit FireOnYourHead.com for more subscription options.
Mar 28th Edit:
Since, as stated IN this article, we cannot and could not possibly cover every objection or thought that this raises for discussion, please give some of these older posts a look through that deal with a few of the hang ups people have with tongues:
Why Every Believer Should Speak in Tongues & Are You Saved If You Don’t?
The Spirit of Truth – differentiating between the corporate gift of tongues with an interpretation in the local context, versus the personal use (prayer language).
The Ministry of the Holy Spirit - what praying in the Spirit does to the believer, and why every believe should view this exercise/practice as vital to their walk with God.
NONE of this subject matter is intended to be divisive or create a dividing line in the sand between believers or segments of the Body of Christ, but rather attempt to encourage people who’ve never experienced the wonders of praying in the Spirit (aka praying in tongues) INTO an experience that many of us who do it feel is vital and should be pursued and encouraged in the life of every believer, along with a Scriptural presentation for doing so.
May 10th Edit:
Check out recent podcasts with Brian Parkman that flesh out some of these objections further:
Related Topics: christian life pentecostalism theology charismatic
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